Geeking Out on Dinosaurs

Transcript: 

Camille Johnson: [00:00:00] You are listening to the Magic of Kanab Podcast, part of the Destination Marketing Podcast Network. Welcome to another episode of the Magic of Kanab. I’m your host today, Camille Johnson-Taylor. I’m filling in for Hal Johnson. He had to take off on a tour. So today we’re interviewing a returning guest and discussing dinosaurs in and around Kanab Utah. I’m here today with someone we’ve had on the podcast previously, Dr. Alan Titus, a paleontologist for the Bureau of Land Management. Welcome, Dr. Titus.

Alan Titus: [00:00:34] Thanks, Camille. I’m happy to be here and excited to talk about dinosaurs. 

Camille Johnson: [00:00:38] Awesome. Let’s dive in. 

Alan Titus: [00:00:39] Okay. 

Camille Johnson: [00:00:39] So let’s talk a little bit about your discoveries on the Grand Staircase because there have been many new species discovered. So maybe you can take us through that journey a little bit. 

Alan Titus: [00:00:49] Yeah. As soon as I took the job in 2000, we hit the ground running, we were able to secure some support to get universities and museums in the region engaged with us to go out and search these badlands out in the Kaiparowits region in particular that we knew almost nothing about. I mean, paleontologists had sort of poked at the edges of the place, but its remoteness, its vastness, the rugged character, the landscape kind of intimidated a lot of researchers from working out there. 

Camille Johnson: [00:01:18] It’s so vast. How do you even know where to begin? 

Alan Titus: [00:01:22] That’s a great question. The first step is to take out a geologic map and try to figure out where the units are that you suspect have fossils in them. 

Camille Johnson: [00:01:29] Just because the right conditions or something like that? 

Alan Titus: [00:01:31] Right, they represent the right environment so that the dinosaurs would have lived in and also get preserved in. And we also were building on the foundation of some guys who had come in in the ‘80s looking for fossil mammals. So it turns out Grand Staircase isn’t just a great place to study dinosaurs, it’s also an excellent laboratory to study the early evolution of mammals including the earliest placentals, the earliest live-bearing mammals because of a lot of mammals. 

Camille Johnson: [00:01:59] Is there a separate department or scientists studying that portion? 

Alan Titus: [00:02:03] Yeah. Yeah. So a different department, a different group of paleontologists. The mammal guys kind of resented the dinosaur guys because they get all the attention. But the mammal story is – 

Camille Johnson: [00:02:13] It’s a more sexy topic. 

Alan Titus: [00:02:14] It’s big. 

Camille Johnson: [00:02:15] Yeah, it’s big. 

Alan Titus: [00:02:16] Mammals at this time were like the size of rats. So they don’t get as much attention in the media.

Camille Johnson: [00:02:22] Do you ever call them rat doctors or anything like that? 

Alan Titus: [00:02:25] No, we’re very sensitive to their feelings because – 

Camille Johnson: [00:02:28] Oh that’s so nice. 

Alan Titus: [00:02:29] Yeah, they’re very edgy about it. But anyways they were the pioneers. The guys looking for the early evolutionary story of placental and marsupial mammals in North America were the ones that blazed the trail into the Kaiparowits and did the early leg work and they were tripping over dinosaur bones when they were in looking for mammals but didn’t care about them. 

Camille Johnson: [00:02:50] Yeah, that wasn’t what they were there for. 

Alan Titus: [00:02:52] Wasn’t what they were there for. So we heard these rumors. Oh my gosh. they found all these dinosaur sites but they couldn’t care less. 

Camille Johnson: [00:02:57] So is that kind of how you dove in is where there had been reports of it? And then also I’m kind of curious, has anyone just been out hiking and discovered it and reported it?

Alan Titus: [00:03:07] Oh yeah, all the time. Yeah. It’s hard to miss bones in the middle of Kaiparowits because there are a lot of places where you can’t walk for more than five or 10 minutes and not stumble onto something. 

Camille Johnson: [00:03:17] Wow, I need to go on a hike out there. I guess put my eyes on the ground. 

Alan Titus: [00:03:20] Well, yeah, we should get you out there. Who knows we could find the next Camilleasaurus. 

Camille Johnson: [00:03:28] You don’t know this Dr. Titus, but I do a killer T-rex impersonation someday I may show you you’d have to have a visual. You can’t do this on a podcast. 

Alan Titus: [00:03:38] Okay. So it involves the – 

Camille Johnson: [00:03:41] Yes, the arms yeah, you have to run. 

Alan Titus: [00:03:45] Perfect. Yeah. So, we got started in 2000, we hit the ground running. I think we found our first brand-new species about 2002. That was Utahceratops gettyi. That was quickly followed up by hagryphus giganteus is a giant over raptor. It’s 15 ft. long, the largest known from the Campanian in North America. Subsequent to that more horned dinosaurs that were new to science, then Tyrannosaurs like Lythronax and Teratophoneus. Yeah. For a total of 14 now. We’ve had 14 total species. 

Camille Johnson: [00:04:17] We’ve got a couple of casts in the Visitor Center. So right next to my office is Nasutoceratops. 

Alan Titus: [00:04:23] Yes. 

Camille Johnson: [00:04:23] Did I say that right? 

Alan Titus: [00:04:24] Yes, that’s my dinosaur. 

Camille Johnson: [00:04:26] That’s amazing. My grandson is in love with that dinosaur. Let’s talk about that one for a minute because that one had a pretty cool scene in Jurassic park. Right?

Alan Titus: [00:04:36] That’s correct. So in 2007 graduate student named Eric Lund was working up in the blue wash area and found a nearly complete skull of a ceratopsian weathering out of a cliffside. 

Camille Johnson: [00:04:48] Wow, that would be so amazing. I’m just picturing stumbling across these dinosaur bones. 

Alan Titus: [00:04:55] I know. I wasn’t actually there when they found this, but I did assist with its collection and then later on Eric for his master’s thesis described this animal, realized it was new to science and then put together a paper for scientific publication and it was named in 2013, I believe it was finally. It’s a long process. 

Camille Johnson: [00:05:15] Yeah, sounds like it. 

Alan Titus: [00:05:17] And then subsequent to that, I made the acquaintance of the producer of the Jurassic World Movies, Pat Crowley and somehow my dinosaur slipped into the latest installment of Jurassic World’s Dominion. And the movie actually opens with this sort of illegal Nasutoceratops ranching operation in Nevada. 

Camille Johnson: [00:05:40] And Nevada of all places. 

Alan Titus: [00:05:41] I know my home state. Yeah. 

Camille Johnson: [00:05:42] That’s really cool. 

Alan Titus: [00:05:42] It’s kind of amazing convergence for me. 

Camille Johnson: [00:05:47] So did you know that was coming or did you watch the show and you’re like, whoa? 

Alan Titus: [00:05:50] I did not. I did not. Pat did not tell me that was coming. 

Camille Johnson: [00:05:53] That’s amazing. That had to be fun to just boom it’s on the big screen in front of you. 

Alan Titus: [00:05:58] Yeah when I first saw the movie – 

Camille Johnson: [00:05:59] That’s my dinosaur.

Alan Titus: [00:06:01] I was yelling to everybody in… that’s my dinosaur. 

Camille Johnson: [00:06:03] I would have too. They have toys of this. I bought one for my grandson at Walmart. 

Alan Titus: [00:06:11] Yeah. I’ve got a pile of them. 

Camille Johnson: [00:06:14] It’s got like this thrashing tail movement, the head bob. So yeah if you want to buy one of Dr. Titus’ dinosaurs go check it out. Nasutoceratops at walmart.com. 

Alan Titus: [00:06:26] That’s right. So Grand Staircase dinosaurs are going mainstream is what it is. 

Camille Johnson: [00:06:31] Yeah that’s big time. So maybe let’s talk about some others. And is there a favorite that you have of the new discoveries? 

Alan Titus: [00:06:39] Well Nasuto is pretty near and dear to my heart but honestly Akainacephalus, the other one you have on display at the V. C. is also really fascinating and exciting for me because that animal scientifically represented a connection to Mongolia that we suspected. But the presence of that animal in the Kaiparowits kind of proved that there had to be some sort of direct pipeline to East Asia Mongolia in particular because Akainacephalus does not look like other North American club-tailed armored dinosaurs. 

Camille Johnson: [00:07:14] We have the club tail and then is it like a rib cage that’s in there? 

Alan Titus: [00:07:17] That’s right, yeah, and the skull. There was a complete skull and a complete club and all of that found for that animal. It was an amazing discovery. In fact, the pit that, that came out of it also included a complete hadrosaur with a complete skull covered in skin, a complete caiman alligator-like thing fully articulated with all the armor plates still running down the back and soft tissue. Several different turtles, two of which are new to science and our Nether mind dinosaur. It went on and on and on. It was one giant pit of bones called the Horse Mountain. 

Camille Johnson: [00:07:51] What brought those bones together? Why were they there together? I guess I just trying to picture the scene, why they would be there and die together. 

Alan Titus: [00:07:58] You know, each site probably has its own unique story. But there is a theme and the theme seemed to be that a lot all of these animals die in lakes, they’re very close to big rivers. You got to understand that at the time, the climate was very different. We worked down near sea level. The environment would have been much closer to upstate Louisiana than what we see today in the plateau. So very wet, very humid, cypress trees, lots of palms and ferns on the ground and even ginger, which is a tropical flower. 

Camille Johnson: [00:08:29] That’s so wild to even imagine now. 

Alan Titus: [00:08:31] It’s so hard to get your mind around this. 

Camille Johnson: [00:08:33] We can be more different. 

Alan Titus: [00:08:35] I know. It really could. The only way it could be more different would be the frozen arctic, but the high desert is such a contrast to the tropical wet environment that it used to be. 

Camille Johnson: [00:08:45] So they were down by lakes. 

Alan Titus: [00:08:47] So they were hanging around big lakes and then every once in a while you get a big storm, like a big hurricane come in or you have huge seasonal melts off of like spring melts off of the mountains to the west which were Andean scale, 15,000 to 20,000 ft peaks off to the west. 

Camille Johnson: [00:09:03] It’s very dramatic then. 

Alan Titus: [00:09:05] Much more like the east or western Brazil, like the upper Amazon basin on the east side of the Andes, that’s what it was like. And so for whatever reason you get these massive floods that break out of the rivers and drown these animals and then their corpses all end up in lakes and ponds kind of stranding as the floodwaters recede. 

Camille Johnson: [00:09:27] Interesting. That makes sense. 

Alan Titus: [00:09:28] Yeah. So they get piled up together and stranded along some trees on the shore or something like that. That’s how they get piled up and then later they get recycled back in the river channels. It’s complex. 

Camille Johnson: [00:09:40] No, that’s good to know. I was just trying to picture, do they have a dinosaur party that went bad? 

Alan Titus: [00:09:43] No, no, they were mass deaths. Right? They’re catastrophic in the sense that they’re being caused by these seasonal floodings. But yeah they didn’t plan that. 

Camille Johnson: [00:09:55] Yeah that makes sense, but what I find. Obviously now to come up on that and see so many different species there together. 

Alan Titus: [00:10:02] Yeah, we found several places like that. We’re working on our second Tyrannosaur mass mortality bone bed too. So we’re now looking at only the 3rd and 4th sites where we’ve got multiple Tyrannosaur large predatory dinosaurs buried together. 

Camille Johnson: [00:10:16] Well I can’t remember if this came from you. It seems like you posted something that indicated that they were like pack animals so to speak, pack dinosaurs. 

Alan Titus: [00:10:26] Yeah. And the more sites we find with multiple animals in them, the more evidence we have that they actually were pack animals. 

Camille Johnson: [00:10:32] That is wild as though it’s not scary enough to have one T-rex but to have a whole pack. 

Alan Titus: [00:10:37] Not just a pack but a coordinated pack that’s smart enough to actually have different roles like a lion pride or a pack of wolves without sentries and chasers and ambushers. And I mean they actually can take on different roles. There’s so much intelligence. I think we undersell the dinosaurs in the intelligence department, especially the hunters. 

Camille Johnson: [00:11:00] Yeah. That’s scary to think of. 

Alan Titus: [00:11:02] So back to the question about my favorite. So, Acanthopholis is that is one of those just because Johnson. 

Camille Johnson: [00:11:10] Yeah I know. 

Alan Titus: [00:11:13] Wrong Johnson. 

Camille Johnson: [00:11:14] Yeah I know I kind of take credit look at this. This is a Johnson dinosaur. 

Alan Titus: [00:11:18] We get excited when it adds something really cool and significant in terms of scientific knowledge and acanus – 

Camille Johnson: [00:11:28] Right, bridge that gap that you had a hunch on. 

Alan Titus: [00:11:30] We had a hunch that there was a Mongolian Acanthopholis sensitive for us. Very exciting find. 

Camille Johnson: [00:11:36] That’s amazing. Well, so you said there’s 14 new species?

Alan Titus: [00:11:40] And 10 more in the queue. 

Camille Johnson: [00:11:42] Okay, that’s good because I thought I was exaggerating a little bit, I’ve been saying over 20 but because of the time that it takes to go through that process 14 are legitimized basically at this point in 10 more will be. 

Alan Titus: [00:11:50] That’s right. 10 more in the queue. And we’re finding new ones every year. So we’re adding to that 10 in the queue pretty much every year or every other year. 

Camille Johnson: [00:12:01] You’ve got to feel like the envy of other paleontologists. 

Alan Titus: [00:12:04] Some certainly, yes. 

Camille Johnson: [00:12:07] Just to be in this area where you’re discovering so many new species, like got to be really cool. 

Alan Titus: [00:12:13] There’s really no more exciting place to be. 

Camille Johnson: [00:12:15] So Dr. Titus, is there any other site that would be fun for visitors to go to? 

Alan Titus: [00:12:20] Yeah, I think one, in particular, is the Moccasin Mountain track site which is just west of Coral Pink Sand Dunes State Park. A little bit of deep sand to get through to get out there. So I wouldn’t recommend it for anything but high-clearance four-wheel drive vehicles. But if you can make it out there, an incredible array of dinosaur and other kind of animal tracks preserved together including little mammal-like reptiles, little proto crocodile, like things, lizards, all the way up to prosauropod tracks the size of large dinner plates. A lot of three-toe predatory dinosaur tracks both large and small. I mean there’s hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of tracks preserved out there and including what I think are really cool, these slip tracks. So it shows this three-toed animal running down a sand dune face and every step it slipped because the sand was loose. 

Camille Johnson: [00:13:16] Is that what that is? I’ve been out to that site. 

Alan Titus: [00:13:18] Yeah, you can see where that they step and then they slide and then they pull their feet out and there’s a little bit of an impression of the three toes where they pull out, but you can see this long streak and sort of a splayed three-toed thing where pull out and you can tell they were… 

Camille Johnson: [00:13:33] Yeah, I guess I pictured it was mud, but it was just the sand dunes. 

Alan Titus: [00:13:35] Sand, it was sand dunes. 

Camille Johnson: [00:13:36] They have a really cool interpretive sign out there too that shows the different species they’re drawn out and there’s one that looks like a puppy standing up, puppy dinosaur. So it’s really fascinating. I definitely recommend that one. And we actually do have one of the local guides and outfitters that does tours out there because of that deep sand. So if they don’t have the right vehicle they can hire one. 

Alan Titus: [00:13:58] Yeah, that’d be a good alternative. 

Camille Johnson: [00:13:58] Yeah, wonderful, thank you for sharing that one. 

Alan Titus: [00:14:00] My pleasure. 

Camille Johnson: [00:14:01] Thanks so much for joining us again Dr. Titus, we truly appreciate it. 

Alan Titus: [00:14:05] It’s been my pleasure, Camille. 

Camille Johnson: [00:14:07] Perfect. Alright, stay tuned. Hal is going to visit with Bob Riding from the Visitor Center about how to explore and experience the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument. 

Hal Johnson: [00:14:21] Bob, thanks for being here today. I really appreciate it. 

Bob Riding: [00:14:23] I’m glad to be here. 

Hal Johnson: [00:14:24] Well, good, I’m glad to have you. So hey, just tell us a little bit about yourself your background and – 

Bob Riding: [00:14:30] Okay, I’ve been in Southern Utah all my life, born in Bryce Canyon. My dad had a homestead that joins the National Park there. We spent our childhood hiking around in those hoodoos and it was a great life but there’s the only workaround was either the Bryce Canyon or a sawmill that was up there and then they closed down that sawmill. So we had to move, we moved to Saint George and I went to school there from the sixth grade on. I graduated in 1960 and went in the Navy for 3.5 years and then I came back to Saint George and it was growing too fast for me. So we came to Kanab and I’ve been here ever since. I love this place. 

Hal Johnson: [00:15:25] Wow, wow, so that would be, what year then did you come?

Bob Riding: [00:15:28] In 1963. 

Hal Johnson: [00:15:30] ‘63 graduated in ‘60 and came here in ‘63 because Saint George was too darn big in the 1960s. 

Bob Riding: [00:15:36] Actually, when I graduated it was the same size as Kanab is now. They were moving in and droves. By the time I got out of the Navy. 

Hal Johnson: [00:15:47] Well, you can’t migrate out of Kanab. You can’t move on for the same reason. 

Bob Riding: [00:15:51] Well I’m getting too old to move anymore. 

Hal Johnson: [00:15:55] Good. You don’t look it. 

Bob Riding: [00:15:57] Thank you. 

Hal Johnson: [00:15:58] Well thank you, Bob. That’s fascinating. I could spend more time just listening to those stories. Navy and everything else you’ve done, fascinating. But let’s jump into our topic today. It’s kind of a cool one. We’re going to talk about dinosaurs. Right? 

Bob Riding: [00:16:09] Okay. That’s good. I like dinosaurs. 

Hal Johnson: [00:16:12] Well tell us a little about that dinosaur tracks in the area. 

Bob Riding: [00:16:14] Okay. There’s dinosaur tracks all around us. Some of them haven’t even been discovered yet but there’s the ones that have been discovered. There’s something right above the check-in station just north of Kanab that we send tourists to all the time. There’s also one some of the Bunting Trail that goes up on the Bluff south of Kanab, south and west of Kanab. And also some out of the wave which is on the Vermilion Cliffs National Monument. The ones I like the best are up on Flag Point and there’s a little harder to get to but the way people are now with their ATVs and side by sides, they can get up there pretty easy. 

There’s a trove of dinosaur tracks right on the rim. And if you go around a little bit underneath the rim, there’s a bunch of petroglyphs. 

Hal Johnson: [00:17:13] Now where’s that at? At which one?

Bob Riding: [00:17:15] It’s called Flag Point. It’s this big red point out east at the top of Seaman Wash. 

Hal Johnson: [00:17:22] Yeah sure. I know where that’s at. Got you. 

Bob Riding: [00:17:24] Anyway there’s some petroglyphs of some dinosaur tracks up there. So apparently the ancient societies were aware of them. I don’t know whether they knew what they were or not but they knew that there was something that wasn’t normal there. 

Hal Johnson: [00:17:42] So you’re saying there’s dinosaur tracks and then petroglyphs right adjacent below those. And they drew those dinosaur tracks? 

Bob Riding: [00:17:49] They chipped it into the rock. 

Hal Johnson: [00:17:51] Wow. And that’s the one is a little harder to get to. You have to know where it is. 

Bob Riding: [00:17:54] That’s a little harder to get through but they’re there. 

Hal Johnson: [00:17:57] Yeah, well tell us about the ones north of town you mentioned up above the way station there. 

Bob Riding: [00:18:01] Well there’s a trail you have to get up to the first ledge which we got a map in there that shows them how to get up the first ledge. Then they just follow the trail right up onto the point there and it’s less than a quarter of a mile up to the top of that point. There’s a bunch of dinosaur tracks up there. 

Hal Johnson: [00:18:26] Do we know what kind of dinosaurs on those? Do you know Bob? 

Bob Riding: [00:18:28] Well those were plant eaters. I can’t even pronounce what they are but they’re plant eaters and all the ones they’ve discovered and we have a few castings out are all plant eaters but they have found some T-rexes too up there on the monument. 

Hal Johnson: [00:18:53] Wow, so Bunting Trail. There’s that when people like that, that’s really close to town.

Bob Riding: [00:18:57] That’s close to town. Yeah, there’s some petroglyphs up there too. But I don’t know whether they signify that there’s some dinosaur tracks there, but there are some tracks up on top. 

Hal Johnson: [00:19:09] So if people would take that Bunting Canyon or not Bunting Canyon but Bunting Trail, are they just easy to see? Is it right adjacent to the trail? 

Bob Riding: [00:19:17] They have to hunt them down because they’re on top. That’s a pretty good area right up there. It’s pretty big. It’s probably a half a mile from one end to the other when you get on top. But the dinosaur tracks are right up on the top to the left a little bit. 

Hal Johnson: [00:19:37] Okay, so not terribly hard to find. If you were to go into the local tourism department, they can kind of direct you how to find those on that trail. I would imagine. 

Bob Riding: [00:19:47] You can. 

Hal Johnson: [00:19:48] Okay, well tell us about Dinosaur Tracks Trailhead. 

Bob Riding: [00:19:51] That Trailhead is right there at the port of entry and it’s an easy trail to follow and tourists do it all the time. It’s kind of discussed the highway Patrolman up there because there’s so many people parking in the parking lot. As long as they stay out of the way of the tracks and they’re all right. 

Hal Johnson: [00:20:12] Right, right. So there’s generally room to park there, but sometimes – 

Bob Riding: [00:20:15] There’s room, there’s room, and they’ve put a portable restroom there for them too. 

Hal Johnson: [00:20:19] Good, nice, nice. Well, tell us a little bit about Moqui Cave. 

Bob Riding: [00:20:23] Moqui Cave has been there forever as far as I know. But Garth Chamberlain back in the old days, he discovered that cave and went in and he even enlarged it a little bit in the back. He made a tourist attraction out of it. But in the early days, they would have dances in there and they had parties and all kinds of stuff. But he made a big dinosaur right, right at the mouth of it. You had to go inside under the dinosaur to get in. They changed it after a cliff dwelling but back then there was a big three-horn dinosaur. 

Hal Johnson: [00:21:14] I remember that as a kid for many years, you had to walk kind of almost through the mouth of the dinosaur. 

Bob Riding: [00:21:17] Yeah, it was great. He had a bar in there and really neat place. They put a café in there for a while there the last year or so. But they never used it much. 

Hal Johnson: [00:21:32] Now, there’s dinosaur tracks right there. Right? 

Bob Riding: [00:21:35] Well he’s moved them in there, but he’s got some dinosaur tracks, he moved them in there before the Antiquities Act came into effect. So he’s safe. 

Hal Johnson: [00:21:47] Yes, Yes. Yeah. From back in the day. Well, tell me a little bit about the Wave. So we were just talking before the program about some tracks of the Wave. So how do people get there? 

Bob Riding: [00:21:57] Well, they have to go searching for the dinosaur tracks because they’re off to the side a-ways. There’s a lot of slick rock out there and that’s where you see those dinosaur tracks back when it was mud. They made those tracks in the mud and then over the centuries, they hardened into sandstone. That’s why the tracks are still here. 

Hal Johnson: [00:22:24] All these millions of years later. 

Bob Riding: [00:22:26] Yes. There’s a bunch of tracks out by the sand dunes just past the sand dunes on the road that goes out to Moccasin. There’s a bunch of tracks out there that they’ve got. 

Hal Johnson: [00:22:42] So no shortage of tracks at all in the area. 

Bob Riding: [00:22:44] No shortage of tracks. 

Hal Johnson: [00:22:45] If a person were to come into town and not familiar with where to go, what’s the best source of information? Where would they find information on where to go to find them? 

Bob Riding: [00:22:54] Well, the Office of Tourism is the best place or the Bureau of Land Management office. They usually ship in people from outside that don’t really know unless a few of the old timers there. But that’s what we do at the Office of Tourism. 

Hal Johnson: [00:23:11] Well, you mentioned that they’re plant-based animals, right? That the dinosaurs were plant eaters. 

Bob Riding: [00:23:16] Yeah, most of them. But except the ones that were eating the other dinosaurs. 

Hal Johnson: [00:23:22] And there’s a few of those around as well. 

Bob Riding: [00:23:24] There was a few of those around too. 

Hal Johnson: [00:23:25] That’s pretty cool. Well, Bob, this has been fascinating. I mean I’m really interested in this and I can’t think of anybody locally would have as much experience with the dinosaur tracks as you have. So thanks for coming in. And before we sign off before we finish this episode. Is there anything that I’m not thinking of or anything that I haven’t mentioned that you’d like to mention here? 

Bob Riding: [00:23:45] Well, if the tourists want to know more about it, we usually send them to the Visitor Center in Big Water because they’re the ones that handle all of this stuff. The paleontologists and everything are over there. And so they would have a lot more knowledge on what and where the dinosaurs are found. 

Hal Johnson: [00:24:08] Gotcha Visitor Center in Big Water, you said. 

Bob Riding: [00:24:10] The Visitor Center in Big Water. 

Hal Johnson: [00:24:11] Now, am I understanding it right that the Tourism Center also has some casting of tracks?

Bob Riding: [00:24:17] Yes. Our Visitor Center. 

Hal Johnson: [00:24:20] That’s got to be pretty fascinating. 

Bob Riding: [00:24:21] We have some castings of some dinosaurs. There’s 3 different types that we have there at the Office of Tourism. 

Hal Johnson: [00:24:29] Now I’ve got to head in there. I haven’t seen those yet, but I definitely want to see them now. 

Bob Riding: [00:24:32] They’re fascinating-looking creatures. 

Hal Johnson: [00:24:36] Well, Bob. It’s been an absolute pleasure to have you here today, appreciate it so much. 

Bob Riding: [00:24:40] My pleasure. 

Hal Johnson: [00:24:41] Yes. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks. Well, we’d also like to thank our listeners today for tuning into our broadcast to this episode and please like and subscribe if you can. And also we’ll have links attached to where this is posted that you can click on those and learn a lot more about the topic we’ve discussed today. Thanks so much. Signing off. 

This has been another episode of the Magic of Kanab Podcast, part of the Destination Marketing Podcast Network, hosted by Hal Johnson and produced by Relic. 

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